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NS- What kind of Turkish identity do you project in the 20th century?
FG-Our identity is obvious. There have been some people interpreting this starting from shamanism within the framework of showenism. Once it was said that it was Misak-I Milli, it was said it was Ataturk nationalism. All these have ben interpreted, what they are have been questioned. Now, I think one needs to search on our own values, our own history, and our own traditions. I think, when we are entering upon the 21st century, our real identity should be searched in the depth of history in the various layers of history together with Turkic world. Historical sources should be reconsidered together with oral culture.
Islam is an important element on this issue. Today, everybody, again, is looking for their own religion, their belief and identity in history. Therefore, the element of Islam definitely should be taken into consideration. A Turkic world, which is not trobled with America, or Europe, taking the Western thought, evaluating, respecting the values which are not against the essence of its own root, very different, wider Turkic world, which is going to help keeping the peace with the world. This is in one way not universality in the sense that Westerners understand it. A making which consider the globalizing world. A making which puts mutual tolerans, Yesevi mentality forefront, a making which puts the love of the humane aspect of Rumi forefront. Everybody from Ayse Sasa to Annemarie Schimmel are expressing their admiration to this understanding.
NS- Despite this richness, in your schools emphasis in on math and scince. Why don’t your schools emphasize on science classes in a country where social and cultural areas are so rich. Why don’t the schools encourage for social sciences? In the world, the importance of social scinces was understood.
FG-It is very true. What we have today is like the fate of Turkey. When Turkey was knocked out against its competitors in terms of technology, the idea of encouraging intelligent people to this field became forefront. The idea was that they should study physics and chemistry and we should transfer the technology to Turkey. As a society we saw this disadvantage and the outcomes of this disadvantage and we headed toward that direction. However the people who are going to rule in the future are the people who emphasize on social sciences. For this reason, when I came here three or four years ago, although it was not my business, I told the people that I know at the universities to emphasize social scinces just like positive sciences, I told them reconsider their situation.
This issue is important in the schools in Turkey. I think starting from this year; they are going to give more emphasis on social sciences. This is important for encouraging genius, explorer and inventor types to that field. Till today, we emphasized on engineering, sometimes those who only take an engineering accounting education might not have the flexibility.
NS- Yes, the idea which is not able to accommodate human is continuing….
FG-Still, I guess we are experiencing that transformation. It will be felt now and then. I wish, we could have taken action earlier, I wish we had not been late…
NS- The world is raising great thinkers. But why Turkey can’t raise leaders?
FG-Raising leaders little bit depends on the respect that free thought gets. That is a seed has the ability to grow in the soil. If the weather is good, if it reaches to water, then it grows. Human is like that too. First off all, there should not be any pressure. Human being should be able to express themselves. Secondly, there is a CARPIKLIK in the education system. People are not directed according to their real abilities. There are people whop could do a plane project when they come to the last year of high school. However these people are not directed to such a direction. Some people’s thinking is good for social sciences. They can think flexibly. His ability for getting along with people is very good. And he is able to express his goal very well. They are forced for studying math. First off all, this system has to change. Students have the ability to choose what they would like to choose beginning from high school. This requires flexibility both in high school and university. Unfortunately, the reason why there are not very original brains are the problems in the education system and the fact that everybody is used to memorize. This is our problem.
Another issue, Turkey has a very crooked understanding of politics. There are crooked rules about it. For instance there are leaders at the head of the parties. With the word of our Alvar Imam, he would say: “Everyone is good I ma bad, everybody is wheat I am hay.” Everybody might be better than me, that’s another issue, However in order to rule Turkey being better than me is not enough; one has to be really good. Average people have come to a position. It is such as vicious circle that they chose the people that chose them; Of course naturally they always choose the same person. An unskilled, unintelligent group is determining the fate of the country.
At one time, for instance Menderes came with ability. Ataturk is a skill, however he came with a rebellion. Both of them are skills. Turgut Ozal is a skill. These have not come through normal democratic processes. Because within the process that they call democratic these people are strangled, crashed, they cannot come out. There were some unexpected turmoils and these made their ways within these turmoils. I think our current political system don’t allow such great people to come out and take care of the country.
For this reason, although this is above my head, I should express that the law for parties and the understanding of politics definitely have to change. Changing the leaders should be made easier. Very intelligent people are lost in the process. Without giving a chance to certain person, we don’t know whether that person has any skills. Certain events put Napoleon forward. Although he has certain CINNET, madness, certain events put Hitler in front.
During the world war, certain events created certain heroes. Without an event, there would not be Nene Hatun of Erzurum. These are very important things. Unfortunately the law for political parties is party hegemony, leader hegemony are going to accuse many in Turkey to stillborn. They will die without doing anything useful for the society. This is something that concerns the Turkish society.
P123-
NS- Is the identity of European Muslim which is also mentioned in Tanzimat Decree something that defines us? Can we say the identity of Turkish Eurepean Muslim belongs to the future?
FG- This might be our expectation and with this expectation we might expect other things. With these ideas, which might be considered KURUNTU by some, you, I, every one of us, might expectations. Walking together with Europea within reasonable conditions, by putting our own conditions, might offer good things for our future. Accepting European in this degree, Europeianzation inn this sense is allright and this can be called European Muslim identity. Leaving our identy aside, and running after the European identity, as was the case at one time, would mean rejection and ASGILANMA.
NS- Can you give us a definition of Turkish identity. What kind of relations is Turkish culture going to have with the central Asia in the 21st century?
FG- We might have difficulty to describe this with strong lines. Because time interpreters certain conclusions, and when the time comes that interpretation comes out. Until that great interpreters, time, puts his interpretation down, it is possible that your interpretations are going to stay up in the air. For example, if we are talking about a unity, this could be in the sense of pact or federation? Why does it become like America? Maybe it could be divided into pieces and states. However the conjecture of the world on this issue is very important. If America does not want, if Europe does not want, you feel the necessity of taking their attitudes into consideration. This requires intelligent people. It requires great architects, great people who know both the world and their own world very well. There are various options. However what ever the case is, coming together of the whole Turkic world, softens up European a little bit. Because they will have some benefits in such a world. Now we are very weak. We are in need of them in many respects. We are sending them workers. We are collecting mark and sterling. When this is our situation, the bargain does not favor us.
NS- Do they have to become equal powers?
FG- There has to be balance of power? They have to have some benefits in our world? And we should know how to market and show them. We should have this ability and we should be able to market them. They should come to us not to pressure to take what we have, but to bargain. Event this issue should be put front and center when we are considering entering EU. Because just like categorically opposing it is not right, -it would mean fighting against the realities, - saying lets enter it as soon as possible, no matter what it costs would mean naiveness, strangeness and not being aware of the realities.
They have to be a member of them. Within then philosophy of Ali, they have to be an individual among other individuals. Some people might have different features. This is something that comes from their good intentions. Everybody has to determine their own situation very well. This is not considering one’s own self incompetent.
NS- Is Turkey with its modern European identity have the ability to embrace Central Asian republics? After centuries came in between, can there be closeness in the 2`1st century?
FG- I am experiencing the closeness of the idea of we can get closer, and we can get to know each other better in the future. I have the idea that the events are taking us to explore each other deeper. With this idea, we feel each other closer. Both they and we are the victims of certain opression. For this reason too, we feel close to each other. Another thing, I think in their view we are dream society for them. You had pointed out too. Anatolia is like a second land from one aspect and like a motherland from another aspect. We came from Asia and had land here. Later things were established here. Even though we criticize from some aspects, there is a stable state here. They had the hope of this motherland is going to embrace them one day.
NS-How are going to find ourselves in the culture river coming from Central Asia? How do they view us? What do they expect from us?
FG- A friend who has been to Kazakhstan has told this anecdote, which was also experience in many other places? “We were going to buy gas for the car in Kazakhstan. We asked a child working there “if there is a place where we could pray.” The child left us and dashed to the house screaming “they have come! They have come!” I went after him wondering what had happened. I said: What does this mean? The father said: When my father was dying, he said” one day they will come from Turkey and rescue us from this captivity. We waited for years. Right now, they came.”
There was a waiting like this. This waiting might bring us together not with the wills but will the motives. One could say that the volunteer organizations were able to consider this warmth. This warmth is an important dynamics. We are a society that they waited. Maybe we haven’t given them what they expected from us, but they did not lose their hope. Maybe as educational activities these volunteer organizations gave to a degree what was expected. But they were expecting something from the State. They were expecting military help. Maybe they were expecting to form a pact against various powers. They were expecting to do things without bothering the ones who world the balance of power in the world. We could not give these, but they did not loose their hopes. This expectation exist Kazakhstan as well as Azerbaijan. It existed during the time of Elcibey. Later Haydar Aliyev came and the same expectation continued. The same thing in Nahcivan, too. Everyone considered as the people who could rescue Asia, they liked us, they embraced us. We did the same thing to them. We were like a son who stayed away from his father a long time. Either they saw us like that, or we saw them like that. We did not know what to do. If we could meet some of the people coming from there, we were taking pictures together, exchanging gifts, we were saying “thank God” we were able to see each other. This was a mutual emotional attitude and this emotional attitude is continuing although there are some disappointments on their part.
NS- Unity of alphabet…
FG- I did not have the courage for Tajikistan. In Uzbekistan In Fergana valley Mollas have power. I thought proposing the use of Latin alphabet might create a tension with them, and left it to time. But In Azerbaijan, I proposed this to everyone who would listen to me. I said the unity of alphabet is very important if we are thinking to get to know each other more closely, if we are acting together on certain issues. Another thing is unity of alphabet is important in order to stay away from the negative influence of Iran and Saudis. Time and conditions have changed the understandings, and created the version in Afghanistan, in Iran. One does not have to stick with the versions, the version in Saudi Arabia, the version Syria.
NS- You are encouraging individual development. A development that was anot unseen in certain periods very often. This is a new concept. Individual development is determining your vision.
FG- To change people’s behaviors is not that easy. People want to take reguge in something without thinking. Because individual development is a hard task, a diffucult job. It requires so much effort. Taking refuge in something is much easier. Generaly this is what is preferred. May be this is the reason behind the hegemony of the political parties. We want the difficult one. In a way it looks like a contradiction. One mifgt think that if someone is encouraging individual development, this is against the communal spirit. In a piece written by either Ahmet Insel or Ali Bayramoglu it was questioning how multiculturalism is going be a reality and how individual differences are going to be encouraged. These show both the fact that we could not explain how much we value this concept and how difficult to internalize this concept. I am asking out of curiosity. In Turkish society how muchy of this ability and inclication that would burgeon this exist? Bucause we are the grandchildren of an militarist society. It was inherited this way from our ancestors. Even I asked some of my concerns about this issue to friends in genetics. I wonder if certain things can be inherited. I asked but could not find a satisfactory answer. However one can always mention the existence of such an inheritance. This is reflected in the Parliament in one way and in the Presidency in another way. It is inheritance in military is totally different. May be because they represent the power, may because of their job they sometimes become more strict. Other parts of the society remain under the influence of the same affect.
If this is not something that is inherited, which is difficult to get rid of easily, In my opinion we need to change this. That is, thinking freely, openly, gaining an independent identity, are very important. After the world wars, following the periods when mass killings were widespread, the birth of existentialism depends on this issue. Individual was getting lost, it was being destructed. Existentialists are certainly right in their rebel against the destruction of the individual, but it could be said that at certain points they went too far and fed another mistake. Just like on any issues, one has to be balanced on this issue too. One should not be worried about the individual development, the development of individuals with the motivation of other individuals because both Islam and The Quran consider human as specie. Each individual in regard to other individuals is specie. The important thing is the mental and emotional sources feeding him, the sources feeding his mentality. That’s is to say, when the individual reaches to a certain level thought and understanding, to a certain horizon, just like trees that will consist of the forest, he will understand the fact that he has to live in a society. For this reason, an individual who completed his individual development will see the necessity of being with other people, the necessity of not being alone. In one side, he will understand the fact that he has to be by himself, on another side, he won’t harm the other aspects of the society. He won’t give his individual rights and freedoms to other people. --------------------
Otherwise, there is always going to be a hegemony and submissiveness in various platforms, there is always going to be oppressors and oppressed, there is always going to be oppressed and oppression. This is one aspect of the sad situation in Turkey.
THE NEW HUMAN TYPE
Ali Bayramoglu was asking the question of how the students being educated in the schools aiming to create new human type, would realize individual developments and cultural openings. I think Ahmet Insel had a similar idea. Since this is the context, I would like to mention this issue too. It could be said that the teacher working in these institutions have the general values exit in Turkey to a certain degree. It is not easy to get rid of that mentality instantly.
The second point, in the level of secondary school, education should be presented based on respect and moral values since children don’t really follow the rules of reason. Certain issues, certain principles and values such as an idea that life is based on, national feelings, independence, love for flag, country and humanity, should be inspired at these ages. However these should not be done with force, one should not ignore individual preference. Otherwise, you can’t reach the goal and even you might end up at the opposite end. These could be done by being role models, determining the beauties in human nature and improve them, organizing curriculums accordingly, adding extra curricular programs. This could be done by being an example, being a path opener not follower, acting always considering the future. This could be done by providing the flexibility to the educational institutions and educators.
NS- at a time in which the world is open to the new innovations, you are emphasizing the individual development. But the group is a closed system. Is development possible within this closed system? How does this reflect on your group in terms of developing ideas?
FG- There are two issues here. The society is perceived different today. In my opinion, If we are going to call this a society- this word really bothers me- the creation of a group is like the creation of a society. What we call is a society is people who share the similar feelings and ideas, who believe similar things, who have similarities come together. This is possible in Turkey with everybody. This could be with the State, with the society. There is no problem in this kind of conceptualizing of a group.
NS- A spirit of a group is being created, which consist of important communalities. Is the spirit of group something shared? Does it allow an individual to create his own way?
FG- Now certain things make people come together. Lets say, as you mentioned, people have to believe in good, beautiful, they have to love people; every heart has to be like the heart of Rumi. Hatred,
NS- What kind of Turkish identity do you project in the 20th century?
FG-Our identity is obvious. There have been some people interpreting this starting from shamanism within the framework of showenism. Once it was said that it was Misak-I Milli, it was said it was Ataturk nationalism. All these have ben interpreted, what they are have been questioned. Now, I think one needs to search on our own values, our own history, and our own traditions. I think, when we are entering upon the 21st century, our real identity should be searched in the depth of history in the various layers of history together with Turkic world. Historical sources should be reconsidered together with oral culture.
Islam is an important element on this issue. Today, everybody, again, is looking for their own religion, their belief and identity in history. Therefore, the element of Islam definitely should be taken into consideration. A Turkic world, which is not trobled with America, or Europe, taking the Western thought, evaluating, respecting the values which are not against the essence of its own root, very different, wider Turkic world, which is going to help keeping the peace with the world. This is in one way not universality in the sense that Westerners understand it. A making which consider the globalizing world. A making which puts mutual tolerans, Yesevi mentality forefront, a making which puts the love of the humane aspect of Rumi forefront. Everybody from Ayse Sasa to Annemarie Schimmel are expressing their admiration to this understanding.
NS- Despite this richness, in your schools emphasis in on math and scince. Why don’t your schools emphasize on science classes in a country where social and cultural areas are so rich. Why don’t the schools encourage for social sciences? In the world, the importance of social scinces was understood.
FG-It is very true. What we have today is like the fate of Turkey. When Turkey was knocked out against its competitors in terms of technology, the idea of encouraging intelligent people to this field became forefront. The idea was that they should study physics and chemistry and we should transfer the technology to Turkey. As a society we saw this disadvantage and the outcomes of this disadvantage and we headed toward that direction. However the people who are going to rule in the future are the people who emphasize on social sciences. For this reason, when I came here three or four years ago, although it was not my business, I told the people that I know at the universities to emphasize social scinces just like positive sciences, I told them reconsider their situation.
This issue is important in the schools in Turkey. I think starting from this year; they are going to give more emphasis on social sciences. This is important for encouraging genius, explorer and inventor types to that field. Till today, we emphasized on engineering, sometimes those who only take an engineering accounting education might not have the flexibility.
NS- Yes, the idea which is not able to accommodate human is continuing….
FG-Still, I guess we are experiencing that transformation. It will be felt now and then. I wish, we could have taken action earlier, I wish we had not been late…
NS- The world is raising great thinkers. But why Turkey can’t raise leaders?
FG-Raising leaders little bit depends on the respect that free thought gets. That is a seed has the ability to grow in the soil. If the weather is good, if it reaches to water, then it grows. Human is like that too. First off all, there should not be any pressure. Human being should be able to express themselves. Secondly, there is a CARPIKLIK in the education system. People are not directed according to their real abilities. There are people whop could do a plane project when they come to the last year of high school. However these people are not directed to such a direction. Some people’s thinking is good for social sciences. They can think flexibly. His ability for getting along with people is very good. And he is able to express his goal very well. They are forced for studying math. First off all, this system has to change. Students have the ability to choose what they would like to choose beginning from high school. This requires flexibility both in high school and university. Unfortunately, the reason why there are not very original brains are the problems in the education system and the fact that everybody is used to memorize. This is our problem.
Another issue, Turkey has a very crooked understanding of politics. There are crooked rules about it. For instance there are leaders at the head of the parties. With the word of our Alvar Imam, he would say: “Everyone is good I ma bad, everybody is wheat I am hay.” Everybody might be better than me, that’s another issue, However in order to rule Turkey being better than me is not enough; one has to be really good. Average people have come to a position. It is such as vicious circle that they chose the people that chose them; Of course naturally they always choose the same person. An unskilled, unintelligent group is determining the fate of the country.
At one time, for instance Menderes came with ability. Ataturk is a skill, however he came with a rebellion. Both of them are skills. Turgut Ozal is a skill. These have not come through normal democratic processes. Because within the process that they call democratic these people are strangled, crashed, they cannot come out. There were some unexpected turmoils and these made their ways within these turmoils. I think our current political system don’t allow such great people to come out and take care of the country.
For this reason, although this is above my head, I should express that the law for parties and the understanding of politics definitely have to change. Changing the leaders should be made easier. Very intelligent people are lost in the process. Without giving a chance to certain person, we don’t know whether that person has any skills. Certain events put Napoleon forward. Although he has certain CINNET, madness, certain events put Hitler in front.
During the world war, certain events created certain heroes. Without an event, there would not be Nene Hatun of Erzurum. These are very important things. Unfortunately the law for political parties is party hegemony, leader hegemony are going to accuse many in Turkey to stillborn. They will die without doing anything useful for the society. This is something that concerns the Turkish society.
P123-
NS- Is the identity of European Muslim which is also mentioned in Tanzimat Decree something that defines us? Can we say the identity of Turkish Eurepean Muslim belongs to the future?
FG- This might be our expectation and with this expectation we might expect other things. With these ideas, which might be considered KURUNTU by some, you, I, every one of us, might expectations. Walking together with Europea within reasonable conditions, by putting our own conditions, might offer good things for our future. Accepting European in this degree, Europeianzation inn this sense is allright and this can be called European Muslim identity. Leaving our identy aside, and running after the European identity, as was the case at one time, would mean rejection and ASGILANMA.
NS- Can you give us a definition of Turkish identity. What kind of relations is Turkish culture going to have with the central Asia in the 21st century?
FG- We might have difficulty to describe this with strong lines. Because time interpreters certain conclusions, and when the time comes that interpretation comes out. Until that great interpreters, time, puts his interpretation down, it is possible that your interpretations are going to stay up in the air. For example, if we are talking about a unity, this could be in the sense of pact or federation? Why does it become like America? Maybe it could be divided into pieces and states. However the conjecture of the world on this issue is very important. If America does not want, if Europe does not want, you feel the necessity of taking their attitudes into consideration. This requires intelligent people. It requires great architects, great people who know both the world and their own world very well. There are various options. However what ever the case is, coming together of the whole Turkic world, softens up European a little bit. Because they will have some benefits in such a world. Now we are very weak. We are in need of them in many respects. We are sending them workers. We are collecting mark and sterling. When this is our situation, the bargain does not favor us.
NS- Do they have to become equal powers?
FG- There has to be balance of power? They have to have some benefits in our world? And we should know how to market and show them. We should have this ability and we should be able to market them. They should come to us not to pressure to take what we have, but to bargain. Event this issue should be put front and center when we are considering entering EU. Because just like categorically opposing it is not right, -it would mean fighting against the realities, - saying lets enter it as soon as possible, no matter what it costs would mean naiveness, strangeness and not being aware of the realities.
They have to be a member of them. Within then philosophy of Ali, they have to be an individual among other individuals. Some people might have different features. This is something that comes from their good intentions. Everybody has to determine their own situation very well. This is not considering one’s own self incompetent.
NS- Is Turkey with its modern European identity have the ability to embrace Central Asian republics? After centuries came in between, can there be closeness in the 2`1st century?
FG- I am experiencing the closeness of the idea of we can get closer, and we can get to know each other better in the future. I have the idea that the events are taking us to explore each other deeper. With this idea, we feel each other closer. Both they and we are the victims of certain opression. For this reason too, we feel close to each other. Another thing, I think in their view we are dream society for them. You had pointed out too. Anatolia is like a second land from one aspect and like a motherland from another aspect. We came from Asia and had land here. Later things were established here. Even though we criticize from some aspects, there is a stable state here. They had the hope of this motherland is going to embrace them one day.
NS-How are going to find ourselves in the culture river coming from Central Asia? How do they view us? What do they expect from us?
FG- A friend who has been to Kazakhstan has told this anecdote, which was also experience in many other places? “We were going to buy gas for the car in Kazakhstan. We asked a child working there “if there is a place where we could pray.” The child left us and dashed to the house screaming “they have come! They have come!” I went after him wondering what had happened. I said: What does this mean? The father said: When my father was dying, he said” one day they will come from Turkey and rescue us from this captivity. We waited for years. Right now, they came.”
There was a waiting like this. This waiting might bring us together not with the wills but will the motives. One could say that the volunteer organizations were able to consider this warmth. This warmth is an important dynamics. We are a society that they waited. Maybe we haven’t given them what they expected from us, but they did not lose their hope. Maybe as educational activities these volunteer organizations gave to a degree what was expected. But they were expecting something from the State. They were expecting military help. Maybe they were expecting to form a pact against various powers. They were expecting to do things without bothering the ones who world the balance of power in the world. We could not give these, but they did not loose their hopes. This expectation exist Kazakhstan as well as Azerbaijan. It existed during the time of Elcibey. Later Haydar Aliyev came and the same expectation continued. The same thing in Nahcivan, too. Everyone considered as the people who could rescue Asia, they liked us, they embraced us. We did the same thing to them. We were like a son who stayed away from his father a long time. Either they saw us like that, or we saw them like that. We did not know what to do. If we could meet some of the people coming from there, we were taking pictures together, exchanging gifts, we were saying “thank God” we were able to see each other. This was a mutual emotional attitude and this emotional attitude is continuing although there are some disappointments on their part.
NS- Unity of alphabet…
FG- I did not have the courage for Tajikistan. In Uzbekistan In Fergana valley Mollas have power. I thought proposing the use of Latin alphabet might create a tension with them, and left it to time. But In Azerbaijan, I proposed this to everyone who would listen to me. I said the unity of alphabet is very important if we are thinking to get to know each other more closely, if we are acting together on certain issues. Another thing is unity of alphabet is important in order to stay away from the negative influence of Iran and Saudis. Time and conditions have changed the understandings, and created the version in Afghanistan, in Iran. One does not have to stick with the versions, the version in Saudi Arabia, the version Syria.
NS- You are encouraging individual development. A development that was anot unseen in certain periods very often. This is a new concept. Individual development is determining your vision.
FG- To change people’s behaviors is not that easy. People want to take reguge in something without thinking. Because individual development is a hard task, a diffucult job. It requires so much effort. Taking refuge in something is much easier. Generaly this is what is preferred. May be this is the reason behind the hegemony of the political parties. We want the difficult one. In a way it looks like a contradiction. One mifgt think that if someone is encouraging individual development, this is against the communal spirit. In a piece written by either Ahmet Insel or Ali Bayramoglu it was questioning how multiculturalism is going be a reality and how individual differences are going to be encouraged. These show both the fact that we could not explain how much we value this concept and how difficult to internalize this concept. I am asking out of curiosity. In Turkish society how muchy of this ability and inclication that would burgeon this exist? Bucause we are the grandchildren of an militarist society. It was inherited this way from our ancestors. Even I asked some of my concerns about this issue to friends in genetics. I wonder if certain things can be inherited. I asked but could not find a satisfactory answer. However one can always mention the existence of such an inheritance. This is reflected in the Parliament in one way and in the Presidency in another way. It is inheritance in military is totally different. May be because they represent the power, may because of their job they sometimes become more strict. Other parts of the society remain under the influence of the same affect.
If this is not something that is inherited, which is difficult to get rid of easily, In my opinion we need to change this. That is, thinking freely, openly, gaining an independent identity, are very important. After the world wars, following the periods when mass killings were widespread, the birth of existentialism depends on this issue. Individual was getting lost, it was being destructed. Existentialists are certainly right in their rebel against the destruction of the individual, but it could be said that at certain points they went too far and fed another mistake. Just like on any issues, one has to be balanced on this issue too. One should not be worried about the individual development, the development of individuals with the motivation of other individuals because both Islam and The Quran consider human as specie. Each individual in regard to other individuals is specie. The important thing is the mental and emotional sources feeding him, the sources feeding his mentality. That’s is to say, when the individual reaches to a certain level thought and understanding, to a certain horizon, just like trees that will consist of the forest, he will understand the fact that he has to live in a society. For this reason, an individual who completed his individual development will see the necessity of being with other people, the necessity of not being alone. In one side, he will understand the fact that he has to be by himself, on another side, he won’t harm the other aspects of the society. He won’t give his individual rights and freedoms to other people. --------------------
Otherwise, there is always going to be a hegemony and submissiveness in various platforms, there is always going to be oppressors and oppressed, there is always going to be oppressed and oppression. This is one aspect of the sad situation in Turkey.
THE NEW HUMAN TYPE
Ali Bayramoglu was asking the question of how the students being educated in the schools aiming to create new human type, would realize individual developments and cultural openings. I think Ahmet Insel had a similar idea. Since this is the context, I would like to mention this issue too. It could be said that the teacher working in these institutions have the general values exit in Turkey to a certain degree. It is not easy to get rid of that mentality instantly.
The second point, in the level of secondary school, education should be presented based on respect and moral values since children don’t really follow the rules of reason. Certain issues, certain principles and values such as an idea that life is based on, national feelings, independence, love for flag, country and humanity, should be inspired at these ages. However these should not be done with force, one should not ignore individual preference. Otherwise, you can’t reach the goal and even you might end up at the opposite end. These could be done by being role models, determining the beauties in human nature and improve them, organizing curriculums accordingly, adding extra curricular programs. This could be done by being an example, being a path opener not follower, acting always considering the future. This could be done by providing the flexibility to the educational institutions and educators.
NS- at a time in which the world is open to the new innovations, you are emphasizing the individual development. But the group is a closed system. Is development possible within this closed system? How does this reflect on your group in terms of developing ideas?
FG- There are two issues here. The society is perceived different today. In my opinion, If we are going to call this a society- this word really bothers me- the creation of a group is like the creation of a society. What we call is a society is people who share the similar feelings and ideas, who believe similar things, who have similarities come together. This is possible in Turkey with everybody. This could be with the State, with the society. There is no problem in this kind of conceptualizing of a group.
NS- A spirit of a group is being created, which consist of important communalities. Is the spirit of group something shared? Does it allow an individual to create his own way?
FG- Now certain things make people come together. Lets say, as you mentioned, people have to believe in good, beautiful, they have to love people; every heart has to be like the heart of Rumi. Hatred,
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